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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 19:00:54 pm 
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Fairly certain the language is Cyrillic.

Checked quite a few countries that use/used that language.

Found the letter "I" with dots left and right in the Ukranian language but could not find the "T" with double legs anywhere.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

And, can you translate the wording into English?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 19:11:37 pm 
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bazza4338 wrote:
Fairly certain the language is Cyrillic.

Checked quite a few countries that use/used that language.

Found the letter "I" with dots left and right in the Ukranian language but could not find the "T" with double legs anywhere.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

And, can you translate the wording into English?

Thanks


Indeedily-doodily Cyrillic (I'm surprised how many people I run into who can't recognize that alphabet :shock:, not expecting them to be able to read it, but at least you know what it is and what it looks like).

The stamp is from Ukraine: YKPAIHCbKA -- UKRAINSKA (Ukraine)

Two-legged 'T' -- that's a 'P'. The full word there is 'Postage'. (Poshta)

HAPOAHR (Narodnya) (the letter after O is not really an A, it's more like a triangle with a squared top and legs; backwards R is the sound 'ya'). (Sorry can't provide a translation, didn't get much further in Russian class than the basics).

Best giveaway that this is Ukrainian: the trident symbol top centre. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 19:18:22 pm 
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Thanks.

Can you point me in the direction of the Double-Legged "T" as I can't see it below?

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_language

Alphabet
Main article: Ukrainian alphabet
The Ukrainian alphabet А а Б б В в Г г Ґ ґ Д д Е е Є є Ж ж З з И и
І і Ї ї Й й К к Л л М м Н н О о П п Р р С с
Т т У у Ф ф Х х Ц ц Ч ч Ш ш Щ щ Ь ь Ю ю Я я


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 19:36:01 pm 
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From this unissued 1919 Ukraine set, last stamp in the second row:

Image.



Norm

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 19:53:23 pm 
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Thanks Norm and Athelwulf.

Brilliant work!

Any value?

Maybe 1 cent - if?

But where is the "Double Legged T"?

Anybody know?

Or is this the "Dead Horse Syndrome" finally catching up on me?

Maybe a stutter by the engraver!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 19:58:14 pm 
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The inscription transliterates and translates as:

ПOШТА УКРАЇНСЬКА НАРOДНЯ РЕСПУБЛІКА = POCHTA UKRAINSKA NARODNIA RESPUBLIKA = POSTAGE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC

Face Value is 50 ГРИВЕНЬ = 50 HRIVEN (or GRIVEN - the transliteration of Г for H and G is similar)

bazza4338 wrote:
But where is the "Double Legged T"?

Bazza, the "double legged T" is actually a stylised П (=P) with exagerrated serifs - think of some of our old stylised Art Deco fonts and the like :idea:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 20:02:57 pm 
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bazza4338 wrote:
Any value?

Maybe 1 cent - if?


Sadly, you're about on the mark there with your guesstimate :(

This set was "unissued" in 1919 as Norm said. Effectively what happened was that millions of these stamps were printed for use by the putative "People's Republic" - but that entity was overtaken by the wider events of the ongoing Russian Revolution, and the Ukraine was absorbed into the nascent Soviet Union.

These stamps turn up frequently in old collections - always in mint condition.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 20:21:25 pm 
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Thanks to all.

Appreciate the quality advice.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 02:28:19 am 
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The Cyrillic Г is a G in Russian, but an H in Ukrainian. Thus Игор is "Igor" in Russian
but "Ihor" in Ukrainian. The G sound in Ukrainian is represented by the next letter in
the alphabet - Ґ.

bazza4338 wrote:
The Ukrainian alphabet
А а Б б В в Г г Ґ ґ Д д Е е Є є Ж ж З з И и
І і Ї ї Й й К к Л л М м Н н О о П п Р р С с
Т т У у Ф ф Х х Ц ц Ч ч Ш ш Щ щ Ь ь Ю ю Я я

The I with two dots is a "yee" sound.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 01:44:32 am 
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Quote:
Sadly, you're about on the mark there with your guesstimate

This set was "unissued" in 1919 as Norm said. Effectively what happened was that millions of these stamps were printed for use by the putative "People's Republic" - but that entity was overtaken by the wider events of the ongoing Russian Revolution, and the Ukraine was absorbed into the nascent Soviet Union.

These stamps turn up frequently in old collections - always in mint condition.

My question is how do these stamps "GET OUT" if they were "UNISSUED"?


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 02:34:55 am 
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marypez wrote:
Sadly, you're about on the mark there with your guesstimate

This set was "unissued" in 1919 as Norm said. Effectively what happened was that millions of these stamps were printed for use by the putative "People's Republic" - but that entity was overtaken by the wider events of the ongoing Russian Revolution, and the Ukraine was absorbed into the nascent Soviet Union.

These stamps turn up frequently in old collections - always in mint condition.


My question is how do these stamps "GET OUT" if they were "UNISSUED"?

This set were produced in December 1920 when the UNR government and forces of Simon Petlyura (whose picture is on the 40hr value) had lost control of their Ukrainian territory and had retreated with their Polish allies into Poland.

I don't know where these stamps were printed but I assume this was outside of Ukraine and they would have been sold off to the stamp trade.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 03:26:40 am 
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nigelc wrote:
I don't know where these stamps were printed but I assume this was outside of Ukraine and they would have been sold off to the stamp trade.

This set was printed by the Wiener Staatsdruckerei (Vienna
State Printing Works). When the UNR ceased to exist, the
printers were left with an unpaid bill. What to do?

Sell them to stamp dealers, of course.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 03:32:51 am 
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europhil wrote:
nigelc wrote:
I don't know where these stamps were printed but I assume this was outside of Ukraine and they would have been sold off to the stamp trade.

This set was printed by the Wiener Staatsdruckerei (Vienna
State Printing Works). When the UNR ceased to exist, the
printers were left with an unpaid bill. What to do?

Sell them to stamp dealers, of course.

Thanks Jay. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 07:16:08 am 
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Ahoj Gavin!

Just a minor quibble, but does НАРOДНЯ not mean NATIONAL rather than PEOPLE'S.

I don't speak Ukrainian, but similar words exist in other Slavonic languages, including Czech.

Cheers,

Honza


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:20:09 am 
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Same as in Czech, НАРOД can mean nation or people.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 07:49:38 am 
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europhil wrote:
Same as in Czech, НАРOД can mean nation or people.


I move in truly exalted circles. Here we have people arguing the nuances of the Ukrainian language, on another board where I post, we occasionally have arguments in, and and concerning the nuances of, Latin. I can do a bit in Latin, Ukrainian however... :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 08:10:40 am 
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europhil wrote:
Same as in Czech, НАРOД can mean nation or people.


Ahoj europhil!

That is quite true, but I think in English 'people's republic' would be thought of as communist or left-wing. 'National republic' would more likely be fascist or right-wing.

In Czech 'lidová republika' is usually used for the socialist or people's republics.

I am not sure of the Ukrainian gentleman's politics, but I understand he fought against the bolsheviks, so I was assuming he was more of a Ukrainian nationalist.

Cheers,

Honza


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